Nah Janeway would brutally break the strike for Amazon.

Temporal Prime directive. Bell Riots are in less than a year and humanity is behind schedule.

Garek is not a hero, and he’s certainly not noble.

Believe what you want man.

It’s not what you’re saying, it’s how you’re talking to me. You’ve approached the entire conversation from an adversarial standpoint. You’ve acted as if you were the ultimate arbiter of truth despite getting your facts wrong, and expected me to keep going with the conversation despite showing complete disrespect for me. Every single comment is dripping with this condescending attitude, and written in a way that makes me feel like the overwhelming majority of your sofial interactions are through either Lemmy or Reddit.

If you tried this in real life, I would have just awkwardly agreed with you and changed the subject. If you did this on a regular basis I wouldn’t hang out with you. Yet for some reason this kind of snarky antisocial behavior is not only common, but in fact rewarded.

People like you are the reason the Internet gets so toxic.

You’ve made up your mind about being a condescending asshole. You used a baseball analogy to “grade” my comment. Then you had the gall to imply that you’re giving me one more chance to convince you, presumably so you could get one more jab in.

If you don’t have time to sit down and watch Star Trek go with Voyager. IMO it’s the weakest of 90s Trek, but is still pretty solid.

Yeah I think their insistence on a low episode serial format is a huge part of the problem. DS9 is a great example of how narrative storytelling can work in Star Trek, but it only came after they did years of character development and world building.

I think SNW S2 has done a good job taking a step back and just having individual episodes that let the setting and character grow. “Under the Cloak of War” was one of the best Trek episodes of all time.

Look you’ve clearly made up your mind. I don’t think there’s anything anyone could do to convince you. You’re talking to me in a way that’s condescending and disrespectful, so I certainly don’t want to be the one to try.

I don’t know if you’re joking but yes. Benjamin Sisco was a black captain. Janeway was a female captain. You also had other women and minority bridge officers acting in a variety of different ways.

While some elements of the female characters were problematic, I’d argue every single female bridge officers was less of a stereotype than Tilly. I’ve seen some form of the “adorkable nerd who is written as a Mary Sue because she’s clearly a stand in for one of the writers” archetype just about everywhere these days.

I don’t know the number off the top of my head.

The plot revolves around a wargames scenario. There is for some reason an alien race that is really good at war strategies. There is an advisor from that race on the enterprise.

The advisor is a massive dick. However he’s also somewhat legit. He beats data at some strategy game.

The enterprise is set to fight a decommissioned federation ship. Half the crew comes over there. It’s led by Riker. Wesely is also over there. He snuck his dilithium science project aboard. He tells Riker about it. Riker is happy, because it’s enough dilithium to give him like a second of warp. He thinks he can use it in a surprise attack.

The science project itself isn’t super complex. LaForge was mildly impressed when Wesely told him about it, in a way that made it feel like he’s smart for his age. He started the entire project like two weeks ago.

Anyway in the middle of this the ferengi show up. This is one of the times they aren’t complete jokes. They start attacking Riker’s ship because they think it’s valuable or something. The enterprise can’t easily stop them because they are carrying dummy rounds. Riker ends up using the Dilithium is some sort of bluff to beat the ferengis.

The episode ends with Data and the alien strategist playing the game again. The strategist gets upset and rage quits. It’s revealed that Data realized that last time he was playing to win, so this time he was playing to not lose. He basically got the alien into a stalemate.

There are also a million other reasons why the Burn doesn’t make that much sense. The Klingons use Trilithium. The Romulans used a contained singularity. In Voyager we saw a number of potential non-dilithium alternatives. One of them was a glorified slingshot.

There’s also just the thematic implications. Star Trek has always been portrayed as this big diverse galaxy. There are a ton of alien races running around doing weird things that we only grasp the surface of. There are even more alien races we’ll never meet. There are races that have technology beyond our comprehension, and races that are effectively Gods.

I think the writers handwaved the entire thing away so that the Burn technically doesn’t break canon. Just like La’Rell winning the chancellorship is canon. However it feels almost antithetical to what we know about the setting.

I gave discovery a chance. I ended up quitting around the third season.

It wasn’t just that it was bad. It was how it was bad. 90s trek did an extremely good job at discussing important and relatable concepts through the lens of sci-fi. It also did a great job of introducing us to fairly whacky and diverse ideas that made space seem vast and unknowable.

Discovery seemed to abandon a lot of that. It’s kinda there on the surface, but under further inspection it falls apart. The discussion of serious topics was extremely shallow to the point where it felt low effort. The entire world seems to revolve around what the main characters are doing, which makes the entire setting feel small. A lot of the justification for this was spending that time on better character development, but when I stopped watching every character except Saru felt sort of underdeveloped.

Not to mention it does things that made me feel like that writers either didn’t know or didn’t care about previous star trek TV shows. Those Klingons neither looked nor acted like Klingons. Most of the discovery crew don’t act like Starfleet officers. I finally lost it at the Burn. I guess it’s technically canon, but it really doesn’t feel that way. We saw multiple different types of FTL methods in 90s trek, and we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project. Plus the idea of there being one element the entire galaxy uses for Warp travel, again, makes the entire setting feel extremely small.

Finally, I feel like Discovery was being reviewed by people who were more interested in propagating the culture war than watching Star Trek. I remember reading articles gushing about how Burnham was the first black captain. Or how Tilly breaks the mold because all other major female characters in Trek were more stereotypical women. Or how the negative reaction to Discovery was from bigoted fans too fragile to watch a show that doesn’t mostly consist of cis straight white men.

The last part was the most infuriating. It’s incredibly obvious they were toning down a lot of what I star trek to appeal to the mass market. Fine. I’ve watched a lot of mid sci-fi. I watched all three JJ Abrams Star Trek movies, the first two sequel star wars movies, Dark Matter before it got good, etc. However it’s infuriating being attacked for it.

You know I’m not super well versed in Marvel comics, but I feel like there are characters who are more or less on Q’s level.

I was thinking more the fight club with the rock or the dinosaur aliens, but sure.

Honestly I liked the vibe of Voyager. They basically went on idiotic side quests because it seemed like it would be cool.

I feel like a ton of episodes opened with one character pointing out this wasn’t their business and didn’t help them in any way, another character just going “…but we’re explorers”, and then Voyager getting into some weird shit.

A huge part of why I love Star Trek is because the galaxy seems vast and mysterious, with the Federation only truly understanding a small part of it. Voyager was the king of that shit. There are a ton of Voyager episodes that give us a glimpse into characters and concepts that could be their own series. It really made them feel like drops in a vast ocean.

Honestly I feel like most of NuTrek is overseen by people who never really liked star trek in the first place and were tasked with watering down the IP into lowest common denominator mass market schlock instead of expanding on the series.

It didn’t help that when Discovery came out the majority of reviewers clearly knew extremely little about the Star Trek as a whole. I remember reading an article on how Discovery breaks ground for female characters in Star Trek, who previously have been stereotyped to caregiving roles.

I was not a fan of SNW season 1. It felt like it focused on visuals and recycled a bunch of low effort cliches for the plot. They also seemed to try to rush character development in a way that felt completely unearned.

However, I loved SNW season 2. It’s the first show I felt was a true modern successor for Star Trek. While not perfect, it managed to do a great job taking classic themes of star trek and updating them to the modern era. I consider “Under the Cloak of War” an all time Star Trek great. Also season 1 being bad actually makes it feel more like Star Trek.

So to answer your question: No. This is incredibly stupid. While the words were by a villain, it implied that there was a lot of truth to them. There are many ways to lead a fulfilling life without (romantic) love. There are many things in the galaxy beyond coldness. This has been well established by Star Trek and demonstrated by multiple characters in multiple series.

Also, they should give whoever writes lower decks a serious show. They clearly have an extremely deep understanding of Star Trek and have done a good job developing characters.

The Risa episode with Worf was awful. It made him look like an asshole. The part that explained it was because of the trauma he suffered was so poorly executed it was kinda just brushed off. Also the very idea of trying to enforce morality on a planet dedicated to hedonism is extremely stupid.

The only redeeming part of the entire thing is when Leeta reveals she broke up with Julian because she was into Rom.

I feel like you lose your right to complain about being victims of genocide after the second or third alien race you yourself genocide, especially when your entire race is essentially a bunch of enslaved thralls who almost always bounce the second they get free will back.

It’s probably for the best that they didn’t use voyager as an example about how Vulcan emotions can infect other people…

I also enjoyed the part where Freeman tries to stop them. I sat there thinking that she was being smart it was 100 percent the betazoids. It’s a good example why the characters aren’t idiots for doing the things we yell at the TV screen.

Stupid question: What admirals are we talking about here?

Here are the admirals I remember from 90s trek

• Janeway, who got the job because she was hyper competent at killing Borg.
• Picard, who we can assume is generally good at his job
• That dude who was a dick to Riker, who ended up being really good at his job
• Ross, who was generally good at his job, even if Section 31 kinda did whatever they wanted
• That admiral who showed up and told Picard he was an idiot for not using Hugh to kill the Borg
• Those admirals that were all secretly alien worms or something
• Tom Paris’s dad, who was just kinda there
• The lady running the inquisition, who clearly got the role in no small part due to her father
• That other admiral who ended the inquisition trials after he saw what I shitshow the entire thing was.

In general they seemed pretty good at their job.